PhDSciNet Roundtable 7: Are You Anxious About Looking for a Job?

Historical interview: The following preserves the research experiences and personal views expressed in the original manuscript.

PhDSciNet Interview Series

Are You Anxious About Looking for a Job?

People today experience some degree of anxiety, especially amid a fast-paced life, intense work pressure, and the many choices we face every day. That anxiety may arise largely from uncertainty about the unknown. So how should we ease and handle anxiety when looking for a job? Today, let us talk about anxiety together.

Introducing Our Guests

Eureka: Postdoctoral researcher, about to begin a job search; intended direction: academia.

Calorie (卡路里): Postdoctoral researcher, currently looking for a job; intended direction: academia and industry.

Fantuan (饭团): Doctoral student, currently looking for a job; intended direction: industry.

01 Are You Anxious During Your Job Search?

Question 01: Have you experienced anxiety while looking for a job?

Eureka: Looking for a job certainly makes you anxious. If you cannot find one, you worry about losing your source of income. The most anxious stage is actually being rejected through silence. My feeling is that if the other side replies by email and expresses interest in an interview or a further conversation, those are positive signals. Even if you are rejected later, you have at least shown that your efforts in that direction are having some effect.

You can also try to obtain additional information—for example, asking why they rejected you—so you can prepare better for the next application. But when you receive no response, you do not know what you did poorly, or even whether the problem was yours. It is like being shut inside a black box with no information coming in from outside, and your anxiety grows without limit.

Calorie (卡路里): I was extremely anxious when looking for a postdoc, just as anxious as I am in my job search now. Looking back, the main source of that anxiety was uncertainty: we could not see what the eventual outcome would be. In my case, two stages were particularly difficult. The first was before applying for specific positions. I think that came from a lack of confidence; I kept imagining that I would never find a position. I still remember how anxious I felt when sending my first application, as though the sky were falling, because I had never done anything like it before.

The second stage was after sending out applications, while waiting for responses. I did not know where I stood in the job market, which set off another round of imagining things. I also spent a lot of time searching for information online: how long it would take to hear back after applying, whether the company I had applied to would reject me without replying, and what working there would be like.

Fantuan (饭团): I am quite anxious because I am still a doctoral student and have less than eight months until graduation, so time is very tight. The pandemic in 2020 had stopped my experiments, and there was only so much I could do at home. After returning to university, I had to run experiments, process data, write my dissertation, and look for a job. There were so many things to deal with at once that I did not know which to do first or which had the highest priority. All that uncertainty put me under so much pressure that I became extremely anxious.

Another source of anxiety is deciding what kind of job to find after my doctorate. We may all have an ingrained assumption that a PhD graduate should go to a university. But my own academic record is not particularly strong, and I do not know whether a university would be a good choice for me. I then find myself torn between a university and a company. Really, it comes back to never having had a clear plan and not knowing what I want to do. That anxiety causes me considerable distress.

Tip: Overall, the pressure PhDs face when looking for jobs comes from three sources: losing an income, uncertainty about the outcome, and the absence of a clear plan.

02 Job-Search Anxiety and the People Around You

Question 02: Do family and friends help ease your anxiety, or make you more anxious?

Eureka: My family and friends have not really offered advice. They cannot help much, and they do not make demands, but there is still some pressure. It is not that they actively put pressure on you; people naturally want to make their loved ones proud. You have certain expectations of yourself. Living in society, you think, 'I have already made it to a PhD. If I cannot find a job that matches the reputation I had as a student, it may feel embarrassing.'

Calorie (卡路里): In my case, it relates to the broader situation recently. We are in the middle of the pandemic, and I am also in the thick of looking for a job. The pandemic in the US is quite serious, so my family has many concerns about my safety. They are worried and keep urging me to return to mainland China quickly. I understand that emotionally, but because I am already anxious about finding a job, being repeatedly urged to do something creates tremendous pressure.

Another point is that anxiety is not a specific task; it is an emotional issue. Family and friends often cannot offer very clear advice. Unless they can provide practical help, simply reasoning with you—for example, saying the pandemic is too dangerous and you should come home, or that anxiety is useless and you should hurry up and work more efficiently—does not help ease our anxiety. Those suggestions may all be reasonable, but they can end up only adding pressure.

Fantuan (饭团): Most of my pressure comes from my parents. Perhaps because of the pandemic, they want me to graduate quickly. They also think about my age. In their eyes, I may already seem quite old, and they want me to establish a family and career and find a job soon. That pressure makes me rather irritable. It is not a sudden, enormous weight pressing down on you like a stone; it is something that keeps prodding you little by little. As those unpleasant feelings accumulate, they gradually form something like a glass dome around you that you cannot escape. It feels quite overwhelming.

Then there are the friends around me. Even under such difficult circumstances, they have received some excellent offers. At first, you think, 'My friends are amazing, and I am lucky to know such outstanding people.' Then you start wondering whether you could also get a job at that level. When all your friends have offers and you have heard nothing, for example, you feel intense anxiety. Overall, you gradually realize that you are you, your friends are your friends, and you are not the same.

Question 03: Has your doctoral supervisor helped or hindered your job search?

Eureka: I had two supervisors during my doctorate. One was almost entirely absent and provided no help—not even a recommendation letter, at least. The best supervisor I have had was a previous postdoc supervisor, who was very attentive to students. For example, he would accompany me to the main presentation venue to rehearse my interview presentation repeatedly, and would put great care into writing recommendation letters.

Calorie (卡路里): My current supervisor has been a tremendous help in my job search. First, she has given me a great deal of emotional encouragement. She is open-minded and does not require or assume that everyone in her group must seek a faculty position after a PhD or postdoc. She does not hold on to that fixed way of thinking, and often encourages us to broaden our horizons and explore better possibilities. On one hand, she encourages me to continue in academia. On the other, she helps me analyze which jobs might suit me if I really do not want an academic career, identify my strengths and weaknesses, and learn from her own and her friends' job-search experiences.

A second very important point is that, during my current job search, she encourages me to spend more time looking for work and to postpone lab matters temporarily. That gives me much greater peace of mind while applying. Other practical help includes writing recommendation letters and saying she is willing to use her connections to help me. Overall, I am very grateful for the support my current supervisor has given me in finding a job.

Fantuan (饭团): I really envy both of your supervisors. Mine neither helps nor obstructs me. Our group is actually rather unusual: the doctoral students who have graduated have all ended up in industry. My supervisor does collaborate with industry, so perhaps our group tends toward industry jobs rather than faculty positions. I remember telling him once that a certain company seemed closely related to our work. Could we collaborate with them, so that after graduation I could become a researcher there? He said, 'Fine, go and contact them,' and nothing happened after that. Unlike your supervisors, he would not help me analyze whether a job suited me or where my strengths lay. He does not do those things.

Tip: Most supervisors actually provide considerable help during our job searches. If you feel anxious about finding work, try talking with your supervisor!

03 Who Can Help Us with Job-Search Anxiety?

Question 04: During your job search, has any person or event helped reduce your anxiety?

Eureka: Unfortunately, I have not personally experienced that. I am a very rational person. Since I know that being financially supported by a wealthy woman is no longer an option for me, the only way to reduce my anxiety is to find a job. Some people feel much better by playing games, having a little alcohol, or traveling. To be honest, I have tried those things too. But I feel that they only postpone anxiety rather than reduce it. They may even be like drinking poison to quench your thirst: they delay things longer, so the anxiety comes later and may make the situation worse.

Calorie (卡路里): A friend has helped ease my anxiety recently. She can do that because we are in exactly the same situation: we are both postdocs, neither of us knows what we want to do, and we complain about everyday life. Although that may not look very positive, it has been the most effective way I have experienced of easing anxiety during this period. If you have a friend in a similar situation, with similar concerns, and can share your anxiety, you feel that you are not alone and that someone else is going through the same thing. Then the anxiety can ease somewhat.

Fantuan (饭团): After getting back to work, I suddenly felt pressure from every direction because there were too many things to do. During that period, my schedule was basically chaotic, and I slept only four or five hours a day. I might get up at eight or nine in the morning, start writing my dissertation, keep going until four or five the next morning, sleep for a while, and then get up and continue. After a week, I felt that this could not go on and that my health would collapse. I decided I should value my life; life matters most. As the saying goes, as long as the green hills remain, there will be firewood. You have to stay alive before you can earn money.

Later, I sought advice from a professional, and it was quite useful. Afterwards, I felt that I could slow down a little. He gave me many suggestions. For example, make a to-do list each day, write it out, and cross off each item as you finish it. As I put that into practice, I realized that I am results-oriented: the moment I cross off a completed task feels particularly satisfying. Seeing the items on my daily list disappear one by one made each day feel fulfilling. I could see that I had not wasted time, and my confidence gradually returned.

Calorie (卡路里): I strongly agree with that. When you have something to do, when very concrete tasks fill your time, your emotions can actually ease. You do not have mental space to dwell on how anxious you are. You have specific tasks, so you complete them one by one. That is also a way to reduce anxiety.

While thinking independently, we should also learn to seek appropriate help from others.

Eureka: When I was looking for a position, my only wish was to find a job quickly and receive an offer. Guidance from someone knowledgeable would certainly have been welcome—for example, inside information or an internal referral. But however much others help, if that help does not turn into an eventual offer, it still has no meaning for me, and I remain anxious. It is not quite like taking painkillers: once you take them, you really do stop hurting, and the pain may ease for a while. Anxiety happens in the mind. At present, we cannot achieve that kind of psychological pain relief; you keep thinking about the unresolved wound inside. So for me, the only possibility is to find a job quickly, and only then can the anxiety stop.

Calorie (卡路里): I actually think your anxiety may not have reached a relatively severe level, because you are still thinking, 'I want to find a job'; you still have an expectation and hope. But some people may enter a state of extreme anxiety. I sometimes come close to that edge too. In that state, people cannot analyze things very objectively, much less evaluate themselves objectively.

So I think it can help to have someone you trust deeply and who is also qualified to assess you, someone you can turn to for help in understanding yourself and your current situation. I do not think you should shut yourself off. If you are on the verge of very severe or extreme anxiety, do not keep struggling with yourself alone, or you may become depressed. I think some of the cases we have recently seen in the news involved people who did not seek outside help, perhaps thinking they could work through it themselves, and who became increasingly depressed in the end.

Fantuan (饭团): When I was at my most anxious, I really just wanted my parents to make their position clear: 'If you cannot find a job, that is all right.' I hoped they could be my support team. I was not saying I truly wanted to live off them; I wanted that reassurance. As long as I did not feel that I would eventually be left with nowhere to turn, I would be happy. I could fight for and work on everything else myself.

And if someone could genuinely tell me, perhaps after some analysis, that I should not take a particular path, I would consider that very fortunate. I previously found an MBTI personality test that used more than 100 questions to analyze what kind of personality you have. After reading the personality report, I gradually worked out what I wanted to do, or which positions did and did not suit me. Once my future career path became clearer in that way, I felt my anxiety decrease somewhat again.

04 What I Want to Say About Anxiety

Question 05: What would you say to your past anxious self?

Eureka: All I could tell myself then was: if you cannot find a job, keep looking. Anxiety is a very difficult emotion to overcome. For me, I really cannot stop it from arising; I can only find a job as quickly as possible. When it comes to anxiety, I surrender completely. I have no solution.

Calorie (卡路里): I have a slightly different view. An appropriate amount of anxiety can still have a positive effect. Especially for someone relatively laid-back like me, the moderate rise in hormone levels that comes with anxiety can help improve efficiency and motivation. So the positive side of anxiety is that it increases our sense of urgency. Excessive anxiety, however, certainly has the opposite effect. I have experienced anxiety far beyond an appropriate level myself. Looking back now, all I can say is: hang in there. Things may improve after this period passes. You need to wait for a positive signal.

Fantuan (饭团): I am anxious too, but if I am anxious, so be it; life still has to go on. You cannot remain immersed in the present situation. For me, perhaps I need to graduate first. Once I have graduated, I can move on to worrying about the remaining things.

Tip: Deal with today's anxiety today; leave tomorrow's anxiety for tomorrow!

Question 06: What would you say to students who are experiencing anxiety now?

Eureka: I would say that feeling anxious is very normal. If someone does not worry about unemployment or being unable to find a job, that would be very abnormal and problematic. But you must not stop making an effort. Do not sit there waiting helplessly because you are anxious, and do not let anxiety stop you from moving forward. When I applied for PhD programs, I applied for two years and sent applications to nearly 50 or 60 universities. That was my most anxious period. Every application vanished without a trace until, finally, one university accepted me. At the same time, many things in my life were going badly. One day, I complained to a scholar, and he said, 'Remember, my friend: the worse things go, the harder you need to try.' I have always remembered that sentence. Whenever I face anxiety afterwards, that is how I think: you can only overcome anxiety in the end through continual effort. Apart from that, there is no other good way.

Calorie (卡路里): If there is something I want to say, it is to students whose anxiety has gone beyond a manageable level: when you feel it is approaching its limit, do not shut yourself off, become lost in self-pity, or regret decisions you made over many years. Instead, find a friend who is also looking for work, so the two of you can share each other's anxiety. You can also seek help from someone you trust. In the end, everyone will get through this stage.

Fantuan (饭团): I hope everyone's life becomes brighter and better!

We feel uneasy

because we are still trying, and still have hopes.

Let us accept this frightened, unsettled self—

the self that feels anxious because it longs to become stronger, keep growing, and become a better version of itself.

Perhaps you cannot yet handle everything in life with ease.

Then let us keep running forward together.

May everyone find the spark in their life in 2021,

and not lose themselves in anxiety.

A gentle reminder: Some people may be driven to extremes by excessive pressure and intense inner distress, and may even experience urges to harm themselves or end their lives. If you or a friend is on the verge of extreme anxiety, we suggest seeking advice from a qualified professional as early as possible. Life is beautiful!

PhD guests: Eureka, Calorie (卡路里), and Fantuan (饭团)

Editor: Honey Peach Oolong (蜜桃乌龙)

Interviewer: Fantuan (饭团)

Audio recording: Huangyuan Wandou (黄圆豌豆)